Venn(e) diagram

Thus far in my walk the topic of free will vs. predestination has come up many times.  It has been a tough concept for me to at least understand.  How a meta-narrative is going on behind the curtain yet all the choices of our free wills are happening on stage astounds me.  I've read quite a few books, listened to debates, listened to lectures and talked to many people on the subject and yet still struggled with it.  I'm a big fan of dispensationalism (the study of God revealing who He is to man in stages) so I thought I would talk about how this process has allowed me to finally come to terms on a very tough subject.

This is how I lived my life before God stepped in (although that's what He did over 2,000 years ago on a cross).  I believed that I was in control of my own destiny.  I wasn't a big believer in any current psychological trend of new age hokus-pokus.  My life and the way I lived it was based on facts.  Life sucks.  Everyone sucks.  We are just floating along on this pointless speck of a planet that was eons old and would be here eons from now.  I basically lived a life that met my needs.  Even the thought of a bigger picture view was foreign to me.  It actually made me angry because I heard people talk about it, but life was still pretty terrible.  I heard all these wonderful things and yet I was so hurt on the inside, so I logically decided that any idea of God did not exist and the people that did believe He existed were morons.  Needing to find purpose in their pathetic lives, they choose to believe in some "pie in the sky" hopes.  Not me.  I was smarter than that.

Although the "X" disappears with just a click of a mouse, it took a whole lot more in life.  To go from everything being my will to allowing predestination to come in was huge.  If you want to read about it, I talked about it in an earlier blog.
After life being what it was (see blog), I was at the point where I entertained ideas of a God.  Free will and predestination were two seperate entities that somehow were going on at the same time.  If you ever look at a discussion or lesson on it, there is always a "v.s." between the two.  So many times I hear these being discussed as two opposing concepts.  Looking at the above diagram (i apologize the quality, but it serves its purpose), this is how I thought for quite a while.  I've been saved for a little over two years now, and this diagram represents how I thought for at least the first 10-14 months.  I still struggled with many things.  If you could talk to anyone that was alongside me for that period of time would tell you that I was still a mess.  I had so many questions that drove me crazy.  There were many times of losing control, tears, anger, frustration and close calls with walking away.

I started to learn that there was a relationship between the two.  Although many problems in my theology, the small darkened area represents the acceptance of their co-existence.  I didn't understand, but I knew they were working together.  I remember having a theology like a meter, where the closer you were to the center, the more you were in God's will.  The further you leaned in either direction, the less the percentage got of being in His will.  Theology of standing in a hallway with thousands of doors, each one representing a different choice.  Behind each door were thousands and thousands of doors branching from each one representing the thousands of plans God had for each circumstance I created.  I would open a door, and He already had the next hallways ready to accommodate my choice.  Theology of thinking that free will was an illusion since God knew everything beforehand.  Free will only exists from my finite mind and viewpoint yet still completely pointless.  Nothing was required of me; no need to witness to that person since whether or not they are "chosen" has already been decided, regardless of what I say to them.
Once again, I believed this diagram/theology for a little while.  It's success could be seen by the fact that even after I was saved I fell into a backsliding state, resulting in horrible choices and consequences.  I still struggled.  Although not like before, there was still some restlessness.  I was still not happy with how I was perceiving God and His will.

This is where the whole thought process began which lead to this post.
Things I hear Christians saying:
"God allowed it to happen."
"God took away [fill in blank] because it was too important in their life."
"It wasn't God's perfect will but His permissive will."

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that it kind of hints at a theology where things happen and THEN God acts accordingly.  Like He is sitting there, watching and waiting, and then when the chips fall He uses His great wisdom to carry out His plan and desires.  Permissive and perfect will?!? What?!?
Like He is watching a movie and I should worship Him because He has the remote and can pause it whenever He wants to do what He wants.  It hits that certain "whatever" inside of me when someone's response to something bad happening in someone's life is "Well, He let it happen." 

I'm sorry, for me He doesn't "allow" anything to happen.  This is how my thought process works now: "God knew that [insert bad circumstance] would happen when it did, where it did, how it did in the EXACT way before the creation of the universe."  There is no such thing as "before" in eternity.  There is no time!  It's like we try to weasel Him out of being responsible for bad things happening.  How we do we know that the "thing" that happened was bad?! According to my finite mind it's bad.  My loved one is gone.  I have no money to eat.  I can't pay bills.  My health failed.  But it's ALL temporary.  We are heaven bound.  These circumstances were planned and our name in the book of life before everything.  "God wouldn't do that.  Sin did it.  God isn't like that."  Bull crap!!  Satan has to ask for permission.  God is in complete control of everything.  The bigger picture is that sin needed to exist for us to fully come to Him.  The end result is a right standing relationship with Love.  He knew what He was doing.  Why do we come up with things that make God smaller than He is? Why do we feel it neccessary to come up with excuses for the things that happen as though God is fumbling around trying to catch up to the events of daily life?
Free will and predestination and the way they coincide is just a glimpse of His ways.  I don't get it.  I finally put it to rest.  It seems like other people's ideas of how God works always complicated things for me in my head.  Once He had entered my heart (apart from my mind), I began to see that His ways are NOT my ways and they never will be while I am in this tent.  I'm going to accept it rather come up with little cliches that put him in a box that I can fit in my pocket.

Kwotes

When I read something that really speaks to me I want to start posting them.


Chuck Swindoll, New Testament Insights on Romans p238-239
     The second passage is an allusion to Job 41:11, in which the Lord challenges the bewildered and suffering patriarch, "Who has given to Me that I should repay him?  Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine."  This divine challenge comes at the end of a long quest for answers by Job and his friends, a journey that called into question God's integrity, wisdom, and goodness.  Then, just like now, they faced tragedy with a singular question on their lips: Why?  And for months, the man's so-called friends speculated about His nature and spun a tangled web of vain theologies.  Job's wife counseled him to forsake life and end his own misery.  Eventually, the man was brought to his end and strongly demanded his day in court, where he felt sure he would be vindicated and the Lord caught short.
     After a long time -- we don't know how long -- the Lord broke the silence as He confronted the man who was "blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil" (Job 1:1).  However, He didn't come with answers.  Job never learns of Satan's challenge in heaven.  Job never recieves an explanation.  He is never presented with a logical list of reasons that his tragedy was ultimately a part of God's good plan for him and everyone affected.  Instead, he encounters God Himself -- and this meets his need.  Seeing God's unsearchable mercy and gazing into His unfathomable ways end the man's desperate quest for answers.  He puts his hand over his mouth and repents of his foolish outbursts.  And, at that point, he worships.



Leilani Cummings, Thou shalt love theyself...
http://godstuff.ablurk.com/archives/291
     If we as Christians have nothing better than the latest pop-psych to offer, why would the hurting and lost come to Christ? They’ve tried all that stuff, it’s empty and without substance. It is a substitute for real change and real transformation. So, why are we watering the Gospel down? Why aren’t each of us then “ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in us…” as Peter admonishes us to do? I think Paul in 1 Corinthians 13 gives us the reason…we’re children and we don’t want to grow up! We want and crave the milk of God’s Word and refuse the meat…because it’s hard. We want our ears tickled.

Bob Hoekstra
     This "other truth" is man's best guess about what is going on in an arena that he can not really see: the heart, soul, mind and inner man.  Man cannot see in there.  When he tries to look in, he gets all confused, because the heart is deceitful.  God is the only one who can look upon it, and He is not guessing at what is taking place.  He just looks in there, declares the way He made man, how man fell, what the resulting problems are, and what He has provided to make man whole inside.  He has declared all of this to us in His Word.  If we integrate human philosophies or theories into these matters of divince revelation, we are polluting God's truth.


Joe Boot
     Reason is only trustworthy when it finds its place under God's authority.  Without trust in God, we have to assume that the laws of logic are valid without any guarantee or justification for this assumption.  The presence of the divine logos, the very Word of God, is necessary, and Jesus is revealed as the logos - the word from which we derive the term "logic".  In John 1, Jesus is the self-existant one, the ground of all being.  He is the truth and the life (John 14:6).  He alone can bring completeness to our reasoning.  Only in Him is there a truly transcendant source of knowledge that illuminates the minds of creatures.  Without Him there is no completeness.  When we accept His truth by faith, we can have a logically consistent worldview.  God's truth in the world and his Word, both in the created order and special revelation, are one.  They are interrelated and connected, and so taken seperately cannot adequately be known.  We must begin any pursuit of knowledge with confident submission to God and His Word.


Chuck Swindoll, New Testament Insights on Romans p 264-266
[12:17]    
     Paul's counsel is straightforward enough: "To no one give back evil against evil" (my literal translation).  While explaining the qualities of genuine love, Paul echoed the words of Christ, "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse" (12:14; Matt. 5:44; Luke 6:28).  Isn't it interesting that both Jesus and Paul instruct us to watch our speech?  The heart is a well and the tongue is a bucket.  The lips can only draw from what's in the heart, and an untransformed heart contains an insatiable desire to protect its own rights.
     Plans for revenge begin with cursing.  The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament notes: "Curses, found in almost all religious history, are utterances that are designed to bring harm by supernatural operation."  Today we don't traffic in black magic and malicious incantations, but we do curse, we do wish harm to come on the person who has injured or offended us.  How we choose to respond verbally prepares us for our next decision.  If we want to obey the command to avoid returning evil for evil, we must bring our tongues under control. We must first obey the command to "bless and not curse."
     The Greek word for "bless" means "to speak well of."  It's the same term from which we get the English word "eulogy."  We are to eulogize the person who has offended us...before his or her life has ended.  However, we cannot wait until we feel like it; we must choose deliberately, contrary to our nature.  Otherwise, the desire for retaliation will fester.
     Note the alternative to returning evil with evil: "Respect what is right."  The Greek for "respect" means "to forsee, take thoght of, have regard for."  It relies heavily on the concept of seeing or vision.  This makes a great deal of sense.  We are to look past the offense to see what good we can do, so that our actions aren't mere reactions.  Our behavior should be guided by godly character, not pulled here and there by this insult or that offense.
[12:18-20]
     Paul is a realist, however.  He --perhaps better than most men-- understands that some people are determined to be our enemy regardless of how we choose to behave.  Some folks simply live to fight and wouldn't know what to do without someone to harass.  Insofar as it depends on us, we are to live at peace with everyone.  How?  Paul suggests two responses, one passive and one active.
     First, when an enemy deliberately causes harm, we are to let it go unsnswered.  Now, allow me to clarify.  This is not a situation in which one person in a relationship causes harm to another and must be confronted in order to restore the bond.  In that case, we must follow the procedure outlined by Jesus in Matthew 18:15-17.  Here, Paul is referring to the deeds of an enemy --presumably someone outside the body of Christ, though not neccessarily!-- in which he or she clearly intends to harm another.  Confrontation would be pointless.  Paul's advice: let it go.
     Note the reason we are to set aside our revenge.  It is to "leave room for the wrath of God."  At first, I took that to mean something like this: "Don't seek to harm your enemy in return for an offense.  Let God do it for you because He can hurt 'em a whole lot worse than you can!"  And chances are good you've heard that kind of teaching before.  However, the wrath of God during this age of grace pursues the sinner, cuts off his escape, confronts her with the consequences of sin, chastises him, and makes her continued sin miserable.  Why?  To bring the individual to repentance.  To give him or her grace.  To redeem our enemy as He has redeemed all believers.
     When we take our own revenge, we dare to stand between God and His beloved, whom He may choose to pursue.  Furthermore, we presume to take the Creator's place on the seat of judgement in the life of another creature.  Eventually, the age of grace will end and the time of judgment will begin.  If that person is ultimately doomed to suffer God's eternal wrath, they are those we pity, not those with whom we dream of settling scores.
     Paul's second suggested respnse is more active: extend him or her the same hospitality you would a friendly stranger.  The reference to food and drink draws inspiration from the Near Eastern duty to provede travelers a meal and a safe place to sleep.  However, let me clarify a few misconceptions.
     This is not a proof text for pacifism.  Paul wasn't writing about the foreign policy of a nation.  These are instrutions for individuals who find themselves the target of another's evil deeds.  Furthermore, Paul does not intend to condemn the good sense to defend oneself or one's family against a physical attack.  If someone tries to break into your house in the middle of the night, you don't say, "Hey, don't forget to look in the media room, there's a lot of electonics you might enjoy."  No!  Fight!  Call the police, have the intruder arrested, and press charges.
      Paul does not intend this to prohibit protecting one's homeland or preserving one's wife and/or family from an intruder.  Rather, this is about heated arguments, malicious lawsuits, deliberate slander, and dirty politics at work or school or neighborhood or even church.  It's okay to pretect yourself and your family.  However, there's a fine line between protection and retaliation.  It can be difficult to see, especially in the heat of the moment.  Our best policy is to look for ways to be kind to an enemy and fight only to survive an immediate danger to life and health.
     The purpose of returning good for evil is to "heap burning coals on his head."  No one knows for certain the origin of this odd centuries-old metaphor.  Some suggest it points to an ancient Egyptian practice of carrying a pan of coals on one's head as a sign of contrition.  I believe the phrase is merely an idiom describing humility, not unlike our expression, "He came to me with his hat in his hand."  During the Great Depression in America, a cash-strapped man might have no other choice than to approach a group of friends for a donation.  It was a humiliating experience for him to hold out his hat in the desperate hope they would drop a few precious coins into it.  In ancient times, allowing one's household fire to go out was seen as the epitome of irresponsibility.  The humiliating experience of walking home from a neighbor's house with a pan of coals probably gave rise to this word-picture for humility.
     Whatever the exact origin of the phrase, the meaning is clear.  The purpose of kindness is to allow the conscience of the enemy to do its job.  Hopefully our good conduct, our humility, will bring about humility and repentance in return.


                                                                                     

Love yourself to death

Colossians 2:8
     Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

I was planning on discussing a few other topics that I've been mulling and meditating on.  Instead I decided to go with this one because it is currently a topic of discussion amongst a few brothers and I.  I've also posted it on facebook to get other people's opinions but none were satisfactory. 

The question:
     Does God command us anywhere in Scripture to love ourselves?  Is it a pre-requisite to love ourselves before we are capable of loving others?

Comments I've heard other Christians say:
"You need to learn to love yourself first."
"You get yourself right, then worry about others."
"God helps those that help themselves."

There are many things that get talked about in church and in our homes that we can disagree on.  Many times when talking with other brothers in the body, we run into things that we see differently on or have different views.  Pre/mid/post rapture for example.  We can have different opinions and it be okay.  For some reason the topic of loving ourselves has touched a nerve with me.  It seems that learning humility is kind of like a foundational concept.  I believe it is vital to have a proper view of youself when compared to God.

When I look at the entire council of God (systematically cover to cover), self-denial is pretty much yelled at us from the very beginning of the bible to the last page.  The Word is about the plan of salvation.  The story of love.  The revelation of Jesus Christ who told us that whoever loses his life will find it.  He told us about death and being born again.  He told us obedience in carrying our cross is what is best for us.  He told us there is no greater love than laying our life down for another.  He told us to not worry, to not complain, to do everything without grumbling, to esteem others, to encourage, to deny ourselves, to look to Him when we rise and sleep, to pray continually, that the poor in spirit are blessed, to have faith like a child, to not lean on our own understanding, to avoid philosophy and many words, to test everything, to show ourselves approved, to be above reproach, to accept discipline, to seek council, to write His words on our hearts, to seek Him and renew our minds....I can keep going.

My point is, where oh where does He ever say ANYTHING about loving ourselves????  From what I can tell, He goes to great lengths to tell us the opposite.  Anytime anyone did anything with selfish ambition, He squashed it.  He called them out.  He brought the truth in love challenging their motives.  Not even that, He was a servant to the point of death.  He came to die and rise again which is what he asks and promises us.

Philippians 2:5-8
     Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.  And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


What is witnessing??  I believe witnessing is telling someone about the love of Christ and how it has changed your life.  How would it look after talking with someone for an hour about the gospel, the healing words of Christ, how it has transformed you from your old self to the new and how much He loves this person, to suddenly telling them "You gotta love yourself first though."
Would that not completely shift their line of thinking??  Isn't the tradition of men self-love? self-esteem.  Self-empowerment. Meeting your needs so that you're able to meet others?
Isn't talking about loving yourself kind of like anti-witnessing?  It's taking the focus off of the love of God and shifting it to an inward love.  "Don't look up, look inward."

It just blows my mind how Christians can think this way.  Am I missing something? 
The Scripture that says the greatest commandment is loving God and loving others as yourself does not mean you need to love yourself.  It's exposing how much you DO love your"self" and it should blow your mind that Christ is asking you to love others like that.  We are completely self-loving self-seeking individuals.  No one has to teach us to be selfish.  In fact, He had to expose us so that we could see things differently.  In no way do I think God would even HINT at commanding self-loving creatures to love themselves.  That is absolutely crazy.

a quote I heard and rememberd.  Can't remember source.
"Humility is not thinking lowly about yourself.  It's not thinking about yourself at all."